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EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:170

17 Dec 2007 1:17 PM  

Here is the first of many maps that I will post in an attempt to look at an often overlooked part of Risk strategy: the initial placement of armies and setting up your empire.  I will show maps that are largely unoccupied and the question will always be similar: where will you place your army next and why?  What will be your long range goal and how will you adjust to your opponents? 

Take a look at the map and send in your comments as to where you would place yoru next army and why. 

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

Try looking at this from each position, if you were Red and you went next in a four player game, where would you place next?  What if you were Blue?  Or Brown?
Or Green?  State your reasons for placing and then tell your overall strategy.  Thanks


Grant Blackburn
Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


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17 Dec 2007 2:59 PM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res1
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res1 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

This is great Grant.

Here is the move for Red. In a 4 player game you can afford to go for larger continents and North America is perhaps one of the best ones. Red plays first so it is also to his advanatge.

I guess others can now play the next moves.


Ehsan Honary
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Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:170

17 Dec 2007 3:07 PM  
Ok, great. Now what would the next player do? Pick any color, any of you.

Grant Blackburn
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Diplomat
Diplomat
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17 Dec 2007 4:21 PM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res2
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res2 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

Here is my response as Green. Since Red is going for North America and it has many territories to go, I will go for South America's main properties. 


Grant Blackburn
SamUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:110

17 Dec 2007 10:17 PM  
I take it that these are the only people in the game?

2¢ is my son so we have the same email. Sorry for any confusion.
Dan12User is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:81

18 Dec 2007 12:46 AM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res3
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res3 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor


This is really cool guys. I will go for Australia since no one else is interested in it.

EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:170

18 Dec 2007 11:26 AM  
Thanks, yes, there are only four players in this game, in this turn order: Red, Green Blue and Brown. What will be your next pick?

Grant Blackburn
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Tactician
Tactician
Posts:5

19 Dec 2007 1:56 AM  


The image “http://www.totaldiplomacy.com/Portals/0/users/jake%20boyman/RiskMaps/Opening-territory-grab-1-res4.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.


Just my two cents.
Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


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King
King
Posts:268


19 Dec 2007 5:58 AM  

2C, could you please reinsert your map with "Display countries with zero armies" cleared so we don't see the zero based countries. Also could you also leave the link in place so user can resume adding moves based on your map.

Thanks


Ehsan Honary
UnH!ngedUser is Offline


Strategist
Strategist
Posts:27

19 Dec 2007 6:07 PM  
comments I have about the initial RED and GREEN placements...

If I'm RED, I may be more inclined to place my next army adjacent to Central America and not way up in Greenland. Your still taking a space in North America, which is what you want, but fortifying at the end of your turn is now an option with adjacent territories. I think its better to have connectivity early on, especially with every army being as critical as it is in that stage..

If Im GREEN, I wouldn't place my second army in Brazil, I'd place it in Argentina. That way, I'm attacking TOWARD the border I want to eventually defend. If you choose Brazil next and someone else takes Peru or Argentina, then you have to attack AWAY from the continental border and end up having to use you one fortification to stabilize South America. If you place in Argentina and attack toward Brazil, then you have still accomplished your goal and may use your fortification elsewhere if necessary.

Just my 2 cents...
EuropaUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:170

19 Dec 2007 8:14 PM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res3
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res3 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

Okay, here is the last map with out all of the zero countries being shown.  I had forgotten to write up the parameters for posting these kinds of maps.  So when you respond to these opening placement moves, do so by clicking in the link: "Open Copy in Risk Map Editor" just below the map and add in the extra territory using the color that is slated next to go.  Save that map in "Your Risk Maps" and then when you hit "Add Reply", add the map as usual to your message.  Leave the "Display countries with zero armies" box unchecked and be sure to leave in the link below the map you just edited so we can just edit your map rather recreate it from scratch.  It will help us once we get this map filled up.    

Also, feel fre to respond to whatever color you want to respond to, you don't have to take the same color everytime.  We want to see what your ideas are, not pigeon hole to a certain postion.  Learning from each other is the cause here!  Thanks

I believe it is Red's turn to go.  Who will jump in and where will you go: stay in North America or go elsewhere? 


Grant Blackburn
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Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:170

19 Dec 2007 9:13 PM  

UnH!nged, I like your comments about the initial placements for Green and Red.  I do agree with you that early connected empires tend weigh in your favor when placing.  I do wonder about Red's decision to go so far north.  

Also, I do like your comment about Green's initial placement.  My move to Brazil seemed logical to me at the time since it is a major border and I was thinking that if I don't get all of South America early (which is likely) I can still spread out to Africa and keep my early connected empire.   But you bring up a valid point, perhps it is better to start in Argentina and expand out ward rather than inward.  Although, as a counter point, even if I expand inward, I can still fortify back to Brazil or Venezuela quite easily and have a strong border there.  Let's keep this thing rolling! 


Grant Blackburn
UnH!ngedUser is Offline


Strategist
Strategist
Posts:27

19 Dec 2007 9:44 PM  
You're right. It is easily fortified, but one more reason I may start in Argentina, is because we all know that North Africa and Brazil are selected early on for their strategic importance, and in my experience, it's rare for one player to be fortunate enough to select both. Being that most players try and secure the smaller continents first, the chances that a battle between North Africa and Brazil are decent in the early stages.

I'd rather let 2 other players fight that battle if possible and then play clean-up from Argentina. Of course, it doesn't always happen that way. On the other hand, if you are lucky enough to grab either Brazil or Argentina with the number 2 pick and then get the other with your third I think you have to go for it.

I gotta experiment with the map posting thingy, that is very cool.
Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


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20 Dec 2007 3:26 AM  

Posted By UnH!nged on 19 Dec 2007 6:07 PM
comments I have about the initial RED and GREEN placements...

If I'm RED, I may be more inclined to place my next army adjacent to Central America and not way up in Greenland. Your still taking a space in North America, which is what you want, but fortifying at the end of your turn is now an option with adjacent territories. I think its better to have connectivity early on, especially with every army being as critical as it is in that stage..

If Im GREEN, I wouldn't place my second army in Brazil, I'd place it in Argentina. That way, I'm attacking TOWARD the border I want to eventually defend. If you choose Brazil next and someone else takes Peru or Argentina, then you have to attack AWAY from the continental border and end up having to use you one fortification to stabilize South America. If you place in Argentina and attack toward Brazil, then you have still accomplished your goal and may use your fortification elsewhere if necessary.

Just my 2 cents...

There is certianly a tradeoff between connectivity and securing continents. Red wants to secure the continent. Suppose another player wants to compete with Red. What would he do? If I were him I would put more and more armies on the borders of the target continet. Red is forced to attack my armies before he can secure his continet. How can I afford to put so much armies on someone else's continent? By making that border my own border. This is what I call nailing; to put large number of armies on your opponent's continent deliberately trying to rub him of his bonus. Red's move is basically counter-nailing. He is trying to make sure that a player (which as of now is still unknown) would not try to nail NA.

Example: suppose Brown is secretly planning to get Europe. Instead of putting his armies in Iceland, he can put them in Greenland. Red thinks that Brown is interested in NA. But gradually, Brown can expand in Europe and use Greenland as his border.

Another factor to consider in this game is that it is a 4 player game. You usually end up with 1.5 to 2 continents in this game. So right from the begining you should plan for it.

What is Green's plan? Is it not ideal for him to expand to Africa even in the initial stage of the game. Why should he then start from Argentina? Why not somewhere in the middle so he can expand in all directions? UnH!nged, you mentioned that connectivity is good. I agree. It is easier to have connectivity if you select those territories that have most borders. Border countries are, as Sun Tzu puts them, the intersection grounds and are the most valuable to control and monitor. Besides you can also be deceptive. From Argentina, you only have two choices and I can easily read your next moves.

 


Ehsan Honary
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20 Dec 2007 3:34 AM  

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res4
Risk Map: Opening-territory-grab-1-res4 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

In line with my current strategy, I get the next border country in NA. Now I just have to focus on the inside to fill it in. I also have a choice to start deal making negotiations with Green. The sooner the better. I can get him to expand to Africa (which will give him 5 with SA) but will have more borders to defend. So I will be interested to make a treaty over central america with Green. I will go ahead and propose a deal. Hopefully Green will accept it, becuase it is to his benefit. Otherwise he has to worry about me. Once Green is secured, I can expand to Europe or Aisa grabbing some territories. I don't have to go for the whole continents yet. NA is a good powerhouse and I will use to generate enough armies to make it like a fortress. Then I will expand.


Ehsan Honary
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Forums > RISK > Risk Game Strategies > Territory Grab 1