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Mr CheeseUser is Offline


Tactician
Tactician
Posts:7

16 Jan 2009 5:17 AM  

Hello, I am a beginner player playing against two other new players and we have just begun a game which now looks like this:

 

 

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Our-Game
Risk Map: Our-Game --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

 

I am playing as yellow and it is now Red's turn, followed by Black, who did have more territiories in North and South America before they were conquered by Red. I am just wondering: what should I do next in order to give myself the best chances of winning this game?

 

N.B.: No one is allowed to make any treaties or alliances in this game.

Thanks.

Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


Site Admin
King
King
Posts:268


16 Jan 2009 3:42 PM  
Mr Cheese, welcome to the site.

Before any one can answer your question, you need to tell us a bit more about your game. How many cards have you got each? Card make a huge difference, without them we wouldn't know which stage of the game you are in? Also please tell us what rules do you use? How does the cards increment, that if they increment at all? How about your fortification rules? Do you have any other rules or are you following classic rules? How experienced are the other players?

Cheers

Ehsan Honary
Mr CheeseUser is Offline


Tactician
Tactician
Posts:7

16 Jan 2009 9:16 PM  

Thank you for your reply. 

In terms of cards, I currently have two, while the other players each have one, but I have had an extra turn.

Our fortification rules are what I believe is standard: one optional fortification move from one of your own territories to another per turn, provided they are connected by your own territories.

When cards are cashed in the first time, it yields four bonus reinforcements, followed by six, then eight, ten, fifteen, twenty and so on up to sixty.

We are following what is in the rule book, as far as I am aware, so I guess we are using classic rules.

 

The other players are also relatively new, but more experienced than me.

Thanks again.

Great AlanUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:62

17 Jan 2009 1:16 AM  
Hello,Mr Cheese.Let me express my strategic view.

Certainly,red is gaining the obvious advantage.Hence,the prime target is "contain" red until it is weakened.As I see,your force is divided to different regions.You'd better concentrate your troops to North Africa,abandon Siam to gray and then develop your power in Africa.Also,you have to organize the "anti-red alliance" with gray,asking him to heavily garrison Kamchatka,threaten red from the other front.It's not wise to attempt capturing Australia which is well-fortified by gray,that only faster your demise and red's victory.

After that,red would not have much chance to against the yellow-gray alliance.Once your control to North Africa is strong and firm,you can even swiftly capture SA and then red would hardly occupy NA.However,if he focus on defending Brazil,then you can try to assault Greenland with prepared force.Remember,always "avoid the frontal attack",but "strike the crippled flank".In this stage,North Africa and SA is the key of the position.

Once red is weakened,then you can have both SA and Africa.Now the hegemony turn to yours.You may depend on the situation to deciding have a short-term treaty with red or not.Usually,grey would place the strong force to hold Siam,you hardly have any chance to conquer Australia.Thus,I strongly recommend you conquer red first.After that,gray is under your feet!Victory is yours!

Hope that my suggestion can help you a bit.Whenever you post your articles here,I'm always your reader^^.



Mr CheeseUser is Offline


Tactician
Tactician
Posts:7

17 Jan 2009 4:19 AM  

Thank you for your suggestions and advice.

The game has now continued and I began my turn as you suggested, Great Alan, by taking the rest of Africa and putting about 20 armies there. But then Red invaded with about 15 armies and through insane luck, left me with only 4 soldiers in Africa, while he had about 10. I evacuated and took control of Europe.

I have since been fortifying my borders and have 35 armies total, while Red, having taken half of Asia and all of Africa, has 77. Black has 17, but still holds Australia. Europe is fairly safe for me at the moment, but all of the borders have about the same number of Red soldiers on the other side as I have yellow soldiers on my side.

I am wondering how I should proceed, seeing as Red is gaining reinforcemants faster than me. I know I should try and break out soon, but I don't know which way.

Thanks again.

Mr CheeseUser is Offline


Tactician
Tactician
Posts:7

17 Jan 2009 7:32 AM  

Update: I used the "turtle" strategy and made a fortress Europe, before eventually breaking out through Greenland and taking all of North America at great cost.

Meanwhile, Red continued their rampage through Asia and eventually took it and Australia from Grey.

Grey was eliminated.

There is now a polarised world: I control Europe (heavily defended) and North America (lightly defended), while Red controls South America (very lightly defended), Africa (heavily defended, with a wall of 10 soldiers on each province bordering Europe), Asia (heavily defended, with a wall for every province bordering Europe) and Australia, which is very lightly defended but there is no way I can reach it due to being blocked into Europe by all of the walls.This is shown below.

Total Diplomacy Risk Map: Our-Game-2

Risk Map: Our-Game-2 --- Open Copy in Risk Map Editor

It is now my turn and I have three cards (no combos), while Red has four cards (includes one of each type). The next cash-in will be for 25 bonus reinforcements.

Red has just fininshed their turn in which they eliminated Grey, who had one card, by taking Kamchatka and then defeated my army of 7 in Venezuela to take that territory back. On my last turn, when I captured Alaska, I had to pull some armies from Europe to defend it, hence the weakness in Southern Europe.

The army totals are 78 for Red and 57 for Yellow (me), so I have caught up a lot but am still a long way behind. I have made up exactly half of the difference between us since my first post.

Anyway, my question is: what should I do now, as Yellow, in order to give myself the best possible chance to win the game? Also, what would you do if you were Red?

Also, is it true that you cash in your cards anytime during a turn and use the bonus reinforcements during the same turn?

Sorry for the lengthy post and thanks again to both of you for your welcome and for all of your help so far.

Great AlanUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:62

17 Jan 2009 9:32 AM  

Looks like your postion is not well.With Europe under semi-encircled by the strong force.And he have more troops and terrtories than you.But examine it closely,we easily find out that red's force is spreaded out and give you an easy target to destroy these individual force.Hence,you still have chance to win if you can give the fatal blow to your emeny,and capture some strategic points.After I ponder a bit,I find out 2 possible strategies:

1.Counter-outflanking

Since SA is very lightly defended after the ferocious battles,that's a good chance to take it.After that,you can encircle North Africa,adding much pressure to the emeny without large cost.Meanwhile,you have to keep raiding Asia and Africa to ensure that the emeny is weakened enough.After that,the situation is much balance:red besiege Europe,but you encircle Africa,too!

Find any opportunity to taking North Africa,your winning ratio would be dramastically rise after capturing it.Of course,capturing Middle East will be much better!Once red can't hold Asia and Africa under your constant attack,and you increase your fortification in "Two America'.Then the situation will reverse and you can easily defeat him at last.

2.Style of Austerlitz.

Telling you one historical battle:In 1805,many European countries organized the third anti-France Alliance.Napoleon invaded Austria,easily capturing its capital Vienna.However,Russia's large force approached and came to relieve its ally.Both sides met near Austerlitz.One of the famous battle was fought in Europe.The Russo-Austrian army had total 85,000 troops,while Napoleon only had 73,000 troops.

The allied army is too confident and sent waves and waves to strike the French Army's flank.But it offended the serious mistake:Had too little troops defending their headquarter behind,Pratzen Height,which was the vital place in strategy.The allied generals not expected that Napoleon would attack there,but Napoleon finally did it.Thus the allied army was encircled and destroyed by the French Army.Napoleon obtained the glorious victory,forcing Austria and Russia to seek peace.The Third anti-France Coalition was crushed after the decisive victory.

Now Australia is that "Pratzen Height".Place all your troops at Ukraine,sending all these troops to crush the tiny force at Middle East,then raid Africa and occupy Australia at once.Now your force suddenly appear at the back,and seriously weaken his postiion.He is no longer able to secure his back.With your force pincer him at two sides,you can shatter him far much easier.But the cost of this operation is you have to abandon "Two America",and also Europe.

In my view,the second strategy seems more likely able to cripple red's power.But the first strategy is little more careful,and more balance between "expanding" and "weakening emeny".Both strategies should be quite effective for you.Or you have the third strategy?

Mr CheeseUser is Offline


Tactician
Tactician
Posts:7

17 Jan 2009 7:11 PM  

Thank you, Great Alan, for your reply. Both of those are very good strategies and I liked how you used an example of an historical battle as well.

One of the things I am most worried about, though, is that Red will be able to cash in his cards next turn for 25 bonus reinforcements. This means that he could probably just about win on that turn. 

How do you think I should withstand this coming ferocious assault?

Also, I like your second strategy, but am worried that if I use Ukraine as a launching pad for a big invasion, it will be poorly defended against this assault and against the massive armies already on its borders, which will then probably lose me Europe and the Americas as well, leaving me with just Australia.

 

Thanks.

Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


Site Admin
King
King
Posts:268


19 Jan 2009 12:33 AM  
Mr Cheese, first to answer your question, you can only cash at the beginning of the turn, not any time you want.

Now to carry on with the strategy, the game seems to have developed nicely. Alan has of course provided very good tips, so I will just add a few more notes here.

When you become one-to-one, experience shows that you need to change strategies and attack the heart of the matter. You should no longer think about building up or even capturing continents. Instead you should focus on making the maximum damage with the least amount of expense. This means attacking your opponent's continents, disconnecting his armies or removing concentrated armies to cripple him, while you should only use a minimal number of armies on the map so you can keep your concentration.

Another point is statistics. In Risk, the dice are always in favour of attack than defence. So if you have 20 armies and your enemy has 20 armies and you are worried, simply go ahead and attack first. You will have a slight advantage and if you get lucky it could completely turn the equation.

As Alan stated, the battle of Austerlitz is a great inspiration. Napoleon followed a very flexible strategy. While the allies were concerned about either attacking or defending, Napoleon used attack and defence interchangeably and confused the allies greatly. He first made an attack move, pretending to concentrate his armies. Then he suddenly switched to defence and pretended to be vulnerable and weak. He even went as far as appearing personally weak when talking to emissaries. This is what I call diplomacy at it's best, using all your resources to achieve the end objective. Once the enemy was convinced that Napoleon has panicked, they decided to attack with a large army. Of course this meant that their centre was now depleted of armies. This is like leaving your continent undefended and going for a kill. Next move was obvious. Napoleon, whose army wasn't really weak, attacked the centre of the allies with a great force, broke their back, and went on to win the war.

What does this mean for you? It means that you should pretend to be weak somewhere, attract an attack and then go for the centre of your enemy where it would make the largest damage.

Ehsan Honary
Great AlanUser is Offline


Diplomat
Diplomat
Posts:62

20 Jan 2009 7:21 AM  

That's amazing!Ehsan Hosary,I'm surprised that you learn Napoleon so well.

Your mention about Battle of Australitz was even more detailed than me.I think if Napoleon couldn't win the quick victory against Russia and Austria,he would be very dangerous since Prussia was already preparing to mobilize army to support the anti-France Alliance at the same time.That's why Napoleon wanted to lure the Russian Tsar into the open battle quickly.His show of pretending weak and cowardice was really excellent!The Tsar who is still lack of understanding how Napoleon cunning and talented it is,but he never offend such mistake again after this crushing defeat....

I have a good idea:Maybe we can discuss and share Napoleon's story here,watching how can it utilized in Risk.

 

Ehsan HonaryUser is Offline


Site Admin
King
King
Posts:268


20 Jan 2009 4:18 PM  
That's right Alan. The Tzar certainly learned a great lesson here and of course Napoleon did a wonderful job, probably the finest in his entire career.

Getting to know Napoleon's war is certainly useful as case study for Risk, so go ahead, if you have more stories that you think are relevant, then share them. I would always be interested to know.

The lesson learned here is that you don't always have to stick to either attack or defence moves. You can mix and match as you see fit and of course as we all know very well in Risk, appearing too strong isn't a good thing at all, in fact it is much better to appear weak and vulnerable so then you can turn it around and surprise them all. We see this happening all the time in the real world. How many times do you see entrepreneurs who are underestimated because they are college drop outs, only to go all the way to become the CEO of top companies. There are many more examples ...

Ehsan Honary
BruceUser is Offline


Strategist
Strategist
Posts:13

28 Jan 2009 10:53 PM  

Wow that is amazing in depth analysis of Napolean and his strategy as a warrior. I think it definitley can be applied to risk. Which I played twice today with the Result of one win and one loss.

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